翻译摘要:伊力哈木土赫提:警惕把疆独问题扩大化的危险

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伊力哈木土赫提:警惕把疆独问题扩大化的危险

作者 安德烈

发表日期 07/03/2009 更新日期 11/03/2009 00:38 TU

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为什么三名新疆人要在天安门附近自焚?如何看待疆独问题?西藏问题与新疆问题有何不同?17名关塔纳摩维吾尔族囚犯究竟应该留在境外还是应遣返中国?知名维族知识分子,『维吾尔在线』网站站长、中国中央民族大学副教授伊力哈木.土赫提就此一一回答了我们提出的问题。

不要用少数人去绑架整个一个民族

关于疆独问题,伊力哈木.土赫提认为,疆独组织的确存在,但可能就在境外。他不相信新疆境内有公开的分离组织或者东突组织。新疆的独立运动并没有西方人理解的那么厉害。问题可能出在新疆地方当局搞扩大化。

关于暴力活动,他认为新疆有,中国国内其他地方也存在。但新疆发生的部分暴力活动跟政治并没有关系。这也是在搞扩大化。在中国内地发生了一些个人的,或者群体的事件,甚至走向暴力的骚乱。一旦在新疆发生同样性质的事件,只要跟维吾尔族有关,就会被认为跟疆独有关,跟境外有关,就会被归类为三种势力。这样做实际上加剧了新疆各民族之间的不信任和紧张关系,扩大了打击面。用少数人的暴力倾向或者独立运动去绑架整个一个民族,这就跟东突以自己少数人的极端行为绑架一个民族没有区别,这种做法极其危险,对国家不利。伊力哈木.土赫提认为法制化,民主化是大势所趋。中国领导人胡锦涛,温家宝都一再强调国家必须改革,必须依法执政,但是,作为地方政府,反而它在有些方面自己走向了极端。

 维族人的前途在中国

 伊力哈木.土赫提毫无犹豫地指出,中国是维族人的祖国,维族的前途在中国。既然你选择了你的前途在中国,那你就得维护这个国家的统一。他认为,有些人指望将来中国实现了民主化,然后就有可能争取独立,这是不可取的;同时那种认为可以通过暴力或者依靠西方的力量来争取独立也是不可取的。

伊力哈木.土赫提表示,1949年之后中国历史上第一次以宪法形式确认各民族是平等的,同时也是一个多民族国家,随后新疆实行了民族区域自治。宪法规定这是中国的基本制度之一。但是,民族区域自治这个制度落实得不好,结果,法律成了一纸空文。他认为,在维护国家统一前提下,实现自治,落实和完善自治法,这就是维族人的前途,也是国家的前途。

 请让17名在关塔纳摩关押的维族人在境外留下来

17名仍关押在关塔纳摩美军监狱的新疆维族人何去何从的问题再次浮上水面。这些维族人的情形非常特殊,美国司法部一方面查实他们没有任何恐怖主义罪行,但由于担心这些人返国后会遭到酷刑,至今仍然把他们关在关塔纳摩。奥巴马担任总统后,决定在年内关闭关塔纳摩监狱。美国希望能找到第三国接待出狱的人。与此同时,中国最近屡次提出遣返17名维族人的要求。然而,一些人权组织反对这样做,他们担心这些人被送回去后被处死。

 伊力哈木.土赫提认为,从人道立场和中国国内的实际情形考虑,他希望17名维族人能在境外留下来。

我觉得,从人道的角度,他们应该留下来。可能我这样说,我们的政府不理解。为什么那么说呢?因为国内的环境,一个是真的有死刑存在;另外一个,从以前新疆的经验来看,同样的案犯全是处以极刑

 伊力哈木.土赫提认为,既然这些人在美国那么多年,已经判定他们无罪,或者认定他们没有威胁,那么他们又没有实际上或者实质上对中国的利益构成直接的伤害,比如说从事过恐怖活动。就应该考虑让他们留下来。既然这个问题是美国制造的,美国也应该对这17个人承担责任。

 伊力哈木.土赫提担心:如果让这些人回到中国,也可能在国内引起一些民族问题。这本来是一个敏感的事件,如果把他们处以极刑,除了国际问题外,新疆维吾尔族肯定不满,又成了一个民族问题。所以,我觉得,从人道,从国内的角度看,他们应该留下来,在境外留下来。

 遇到维族人怎么办?打110”

 最近在天安门附近发生三名上访的新疆人自焚事件,借这个话题,伊力哈木.土赫提同我们谈起了在京维族人的处境。北京现在有很多维族人。有些是来上访的。许多是农民,不懂汉语,从前从未来过北京。由于维族人的身份,多数旅店不让他们住。我们在北京奥运前搞过一个调查,有关当局发的紧急通知上面写着:遇到维族人怎么办?打110”

究其原因,伊力哈木.土赫提认为一方面维族人的有些权益确实受到了侵害;另一方面也同新疆地方政府扩大东突威胁有关。其次,绝大多数汉族一生中同维族人没有接触,因此不理解。虽然在新疆生活着八百万汉族,但他们的情况很特殊。三分之一在兵团。还有很大一部分是干部。另外能源企业几乎不接受维族,当地主要的产业工人队伍,劳动密集型行业的人也跟维族没有关系。因此,新疆的汉族其实也并不理解维族。至于北京许多人对维族的了解也仅仅来源于地方政府的扩大化宣传,或者就是通过流动人口来感受:于是,从前的能歌善舞好客的维吾尔族不见了,阿凡提的幽默也在他们的心目中消失了。维族人成了恐怖分子,小偷、流浪儿童的代号。因此,平时社会上对维吾尔族的形象都是扭曲的。

 汉族作为大民族要主动承担各民族互相沟通的责任

 如何能够同其他人,同汉族更好地相互理解,同时又能更好地保护维族人和其他少数民族的的文化、宗教、和语言呢?伊力哈木.土赫提认为现有的法律很好,但需要完善,要落实法律;其次,汉族人口众多,历史上就有大一统思想,不容易理解其他民族。汉族应该明白,这个国家除你之外还存在着别的民族。汉族说白了就是中国的执政民族,有责任搞好这个国家,有责任主动地了解别的民族,同时得给他们给机会。他想什么,你得跟他沟通。真正的民族的代表得参加有些决策的制定。有些调查研究需要汉族学者和维族学者一块做。有些领域要开放。比方说新疆地区就没有『民族学习』等等,这些研究实际上是禁止的。虽然没有明确的规定,但有很多潜规则。

 伊力哈木.土赫提指出,新疆的实际情况,很多人不理解,包括学者在内。一些研究新疆的所谓的专家,他们参加一些政府的决策。但也根本不了解新疆,不懂维吾尔语。有些学者甚至为了讨好领导,先制造一个结论然后再拿出一个调查报告。比如,有一个研究小组的报告说维吾尔族的国家认同高于汉族就属于此类。因此,首先得了解这个民族,才能制定出正确的政策。

 更详细的内容请听下面的访谈。 

Prof. Ilham Tohti: Beware of the Danger of Exaggerating the Xinjiang Independence Issue

[Translation of a summary of a Radio France International Chinese service interview with Prof. Ilham Tohti on the Radio France International website at http://www.rfi.fr/actucn/articles/111/article_12553.asp ]

Why did three Uighurs immolate themselves near Tianamen? How should we understand the “Xinjiang independence issue”? What are the differences between the Tibet issue and the Xinjiang issue? Should the 17 Uighurs imprisoned at Guantanamo be returned to China or should they remain abroad? The famous Uighur intellectual and head of Uighur Online, Assistant Professor Ilham Tohti of the Central

Don’t Allow a Small Group Be Used to Stereotype an Entire Nationality

On the Xinjiang independence issue, Ilham Tohti believes that the Uighur independence movement certainly exists, but it is outside of China. he doesn’t believe that a Xinjiang independence or East Turkmenistan movement exists openly in Xinjiang today. The Xinjiang independence movement is not as powerful as Westerners think. The issue perhaps arose because the Xinjiang local government exaggerated it.

Riots do occur in Xinjiang, Ilham Tohti says, but there are also riots in interior China. Some riots in Xinjiang have nothing to do with politics. These are being exaggerated. In China there are some violent incidents involving individuals and groups that sometimes develop into riots. Whenever these occur in Xinjiang, however, as long as Uighur are involved, it is just assumed that they are connected to Xinjiang independence and that they were fomented by forces outside of mainland China and so “outside agitators” are held responsible for them. This actually makes relations worse, and damages trust, and creates tensions among the nationalities in Xinjiang, and expands the size of the target that is to be suppressed. If the violent tendencies or independence activities of a small group are imputed to an entire nationality, this is in fact no different from what the East Turkistan organization does as a small group claiming to speak for all the Uighur. This is very dangerous and is harmful to China. Ilham Tohti believes that the strengthening of the legal system and democratization are powerful trends. China’s leaders Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao over and over that China needs reforms and that government administration should operate according to the rule of law. Local government, however, in some areas goes to extremes.

The Future of the Uighurs is in China

Ilham Tohti said without any hesitation that China is the homeland of the Uighur and the future of the Uihgurs is in China. If you have chosen your future to be in China, then you must uphold the territorial integrity of the country. He believes that some people say that China is getting more and more democratic, and that later it will be possible for Uighur to seize their independence. This is impossible. Moreover, some people believe that independence can be achieved through violence or the power of western countries. This is also impossible.

Let the Seventeen Uighurs in Guantanamo Stay Outside of China

The problem of the 17 Uighurs imprisoned at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo has once again arisen. The case of these Uighur is very special. The U.S. justice system investigated and found that they are guilty of no terrorist crimes. However, for fear that they would be tortured if they were to be returned to China. However they in no way constitute a threat to China since they have never been involved in terrorist activities. So they should be allowed to stay. This is a problem created by the United States and so the United States should take responsibility for it.

Ilham Tohti is concerned “If these people return to China, it could cause nationality problems within China. This is a sensitive issue. If they were to be executed, it would not only make it an international problem but the Uighur would definitely be unhappy about it and could cause a nationality problem. Therefore, I believe from a humanitarian perspective and from a Chinese domestic perspective, they should stay outside of mainland China.

If You Meet a Uighur, Dial 911”

Recently three Uighur immolated themselves near Tiananmen. Ilham Tohti began consideration of this issue by discussing the situation of Uighur living in Beijing. There are many Uighur in Beijing. Some come to present petitions to the central government redress grievances. Some are peasants who can’t speak Chinese and have never been to Beijing before. Since they are Uighur, most hotels won’t accept them. “We made a study just before the Beijing Olympics. Some authority issued an urgent notice that said: “What do you do if you meet a Uighur? Dial 911”

The causes of all this, says Ilham Tohti, is that the rights of the Uighur nationality have certainly been infringed upon and that local government in Xinjiang has exaggerated the threat from the East Turkistan independence organization. Moreover, most Han people have never met a Uighur in their entire lives so they don’t understand them. Although there are 8 million Han people living in Xinjiang, they are in a very special situation. One third of them are in the military construction corps (bingtuan). Many are government or Party cadres. Some others work for energy companies that employ almost no Uighur. Most factory works and labor intensive industries also employ few Uighur. Therefore, the Han in Xinjiang really don’t understand the Uighur. What people in Beijing know about Uighur comes only from exaggerated propaganda put out by the government or connected to their feelings about the migrant worker population. “Now it seems like the Uighur in the old days who were good at singing and dancing are not to be found. The memory of the humor of Afanti, they have forgotten. Now the Uighur are terrorists, thieves and roving bands of juvenile delinquents.” Thus the image that society at large has of the Uighur is highly distorted.

The Han Nationality Bears the Major Responsibility that the Nationalities Understand One Other

How can the Uighur, other nationalities and the Han come to understand each other better? How can the culture, religion and language of the Uighur and other minority nationalities be better protected? How can the Uighur, other nationalities and the Han come to understand each other better? How can the culture, religion and language of the Uighur and other minority nationalities be better protected?

Ilham Tohti says that present laws are very good, but need to be better and the law needs to be implemented. The Han nationality population is very large and has historically had a strong ideology of unification that makes it hard for them to understand other nationalities. The Han nationality needs to understand, that there exist other nationalities beside yourselves in this country. The Han nationality, to speak bluntly, is the nationality in charge in China. They have the responsibility to run this country well and they have the responsibility to understand other nationalities. They need to give them opportunities. Whatever he thinks, you need to make the effort to communicate. True representatives of the various nationalities should participate in devising some policies. Some research studies should be jointly conducted by Han nationality scholars and Uighur nationality scholars. Some fields should be opened up to research. For example in the Xinjiang region there are no “ethnic studies” etc. This kind of research is in fact prohibited. Although there are no written rules prohibiting this kind of research, there are many unwritten rules.

Ilham Tohti said that many people don’t understand the real situation in Xinjiang, including many Chinese scholars. Some of the so-called scholars researching Xinjiang participate in some government decision-making. But they don’t understand Xinjiang and they can’t speak Uighur. Some scholars in order to curry favor with leaders, make up a conclusion and they make a survey report to support it. One example is a research group studying the Uighur nationality concluded that the Uighur identify more strongly with China than do the Han nationality. Therefore, they need to first understand a nationality before they can create the correct policy.

Listen to the interview for more details.

[Click on the box labeled “Citizen’s Square” Gongmin Guangchang just below the Chinese text to hear the Radio France International Chinese language service March 2009 interview with Professor Ilham Tohti at http://www.rfi.fr/actucn/articles/111/article_12553.asp

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3 Responses to 翻译摘要:伊力哈木土赫提:警惕把疆独问题扩大化的危险

  1. 五金工具 says:

    放心吧 中国没那么好欺侮的

  2. Pingback: 伊力哈木土赫提:警惕把疆独问题扩大化的危险 | Ilham Tohti in Media

  3. Pingback: Prof. Ilham Tohti: Beware of the Danger of Exaggerating the Xinjiang Independence Issue | Ilham Tohti in Media

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